A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Template:R to person. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 March 16#Template:R to person until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 12:59, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

This template's usage instructions says Be sure to include <nowiki>{{DEFAULTSORT:(surname), (given name)}}</nowiki> for correct category sorting of this person's name. There are two reasons I question this. First, Category:Redirects from persons almost universally lists people as <Given name> <Lastname> rather than <Lastname>, <Given name>, meaning editors don't follow this guidance. So following the guidance in this template would cause an inconsistent listing in the category. Second, the guidance at WP:NAMESORT says: The sort key should mirror the article's title as closely as possible, while omitting disambiguating terms. Since article titles and the titles of redirects for people generally appear as <Given name> <Lastname>, I would think this means the sort key should reflect that. Note that the policy at WP:NCBIO indicates that most biographical articles should be titled <First name> <Last name>, although there are exceptions. On the other hand, WP:SUR says: If the article is titled "Forename Surname", the category should be added to the article as [[Category:Type X people|Surname, Forename]] (or: {{DEFAULTSORT:Surname, Forename}}) so that it will be sorted by surname. This suggests that the articles themselves are supposed to appear in categories as <Surname>, <Forename> whereas the redirects are listed in Category:Redirects from persons as <Forename> <Surname> despite the guidance in this template. Should the instructions in this template be corrected? Coastside (talk) 17:36, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

• I think the sorting order in "real" categories is more important than the order in which they appear in a category for Wikipedia editors. Just because a large number of editors have created redirects without giving them a sensible sort key is no reason to continue the practice. A category like Category:Minor league baseball players should show people sorted consistently by surname: Micker Adolfo and Dakota Chalmers are both redirects, but only the former has the right sort key. PamD 17:55, 26 September 2021 (UTC)

Currently the template always says Be sure to include <nowiki>{{DEFAULTSORT:(surname), (given name)}}</nowiki> for correct category sorting of this person's name. I propose we introduce a new yes/NO parameter called |sorted=, which when set to the non-default value of "yes" silences this part of the template. Jason Quinn (talk) 03:46, 15 April 2022 (UTC)

• For the record Jason Quinn, here's a minor coincidence you could possibly be faintly intrigued of. I came to this page given Jason McQuinn. J947 † ^edits 01:11, 15 July 2022 (UTC)
  • Thank you. Haven't heard of that person until now. That is a petty odd coincidence. Jason Quinn (talk) 02:25, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

I'm wondering whether, for a redirect to be tagged with this template, is it necessary for the subject to likely be notable? Should this template be taged on all redirects from people, or only those which are also {{R with possibilities}}? J947 † ^edits 01:09, 15 July 2022 (UTC)