User talk:Kwamikagami


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Word/quotation of the moment:

yod-dropper
(Previous quotes)

ALL keys matter

(response to the scale-wandering rendition of the national anthem at CPAC 2021)

The Lunatic-in-Charge becomes the Lunatic-at-Large

Lame duck à l'orange (AKA canard à l'orange)

It is a mortifying circumstance, which greatly perplexes many a painstaking philosopher, that nature often refuses to second his most profound and elaborate efforts; so that often after having invented one of the most ingenious and natural theories imaginable, she will have the perverseness to act directly in the teeth of his system, and flatly contradict his most favorite positions. This is a manifest and unmerited grievance, since it throws the censure of the vulgar and unlearned entirely upon the philosopher; whereas the fault is not to be ascribed to his theory, which is unquestionably correct, but to the waywardness of Dame Nature, who, with the proverbial fickleness of her sex, is continually indulging in coquetries and caprices, and seems really to take pleasure in violating all philosophic rules, and jilting the most learned and indefatigable of her adorers. [...] The philosophers took this in very ill part, and it is thought they would never have pardoned the slight and affront which they conceived put upon them by the world had not a good-natured professor kindly officiated as a mediator between the parties, and effected a reconciliation. Finding the world would not accommodate itself to the theory, he wisely determined to accommodate the theory to the world.

Washington Irving, Knickerbocker's History of New York

Pela primeira vez na sua vida a morte soube o que era ter um cão no regaço.
For the first time in her life, death knew what it felt like to have a dog in her lap.

It is now generally accepted that the megaliths that make up Stonehenge were moved by human effort.

as opposed to by what?

Anybody who says you only have yourself to blame is just not very good at blaming other people.

When poppies pull themselves up from their roots
and start out, one after the other, toward the sunset –
don't follow them.

Slavko Janevski, 'Silence'

And the dough-headed took their acid fermentation for a soul, the stabbing of meat for history, the means of postponing their decay for civilization.

Stanislaw Lem, Return from the Stars

The Church says that the Earth is Flat,
but I know that it is Round,
for I have seen its Shadow on the Moon,
and I have more Faith in a Shadow than in the Church.

(commonly misattributed to Magellan)

In the early years of the study there were more than 200 speakers of the dialect, including one parrot.

from the WP article Nancy Dorian

Mikebrown is unusually eccentric and not very bright. [...] Astronomers have not noticed any outbursts by Mikebrown.

from the WP article 11714 Mikebrown
Ecce Mono
Keep Redskins White!
"homosapiens are people, too!!"
a sprig of spaghetti
"I've always had a horror of husbands-in-law."
awkwardnessful
anti–zombie-fungus fungus
"Only an evil person would eat baby soup." (said in all sincerity)


Mindoro and a map you created


Hi Kwamikagami,

I noticed that this map you created, which is used on many different articles throughout Wikipedia, is missing the island of Mindoro. Would you be able to correct it?

RedPanda25 17:23, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

Hi RedPanda,
I've made a request to the user who fixed up the national borders. If they decline, I'll try something else. — kwami (talk) 21:31, 23 May 2021 (UTC)

You may be interested


@Kwamikagami: I understand if you are busy, but judging from your contributions, you may be interested. Wretchskull (talk) 10:21, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks. Yeah, it is an interest, but not something I know much about. Definitely deserves to be GA or FA, though. I'll take a look. — kwami (talk) 19:16, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Montenegro recognition


From https://www.loc.gov/law/foreign-news/article/montenegro-new-law-establishing-registration-of-same-sex-partnerships-enters-into-force/

(Aug. 5, 2020) On July 3, 2020, the president of Montenegro, Milo Đukanović, signed Decree No. 01-1337 / 2 on the Promulgation of the Law on the Same-Sex Life Partnership. The president issued the decree two days after the Skupština Crne Gore (the Parliament of Montenegro) passed the Law on the Same-Sex Life Partnership (Law No. 868 of July 1, 2020.)

Forty-two lawmakers in the 81-seat Parliament backed the law, which required 41 votes for passage. Members of the Parliament from the ruling Democratic Party of Socialists (DPS); the Social Democrats; the Liberal Party; and the opposition party, the Social Democratic Party, comprised the votes for passing the legislation. Five MP’s voted against and the rest claimed during the June 30 debate that the law was being imposed by the “world Satanists” and abstained from voting.


The law enters into force on the eighth day after its publication in the Official Gazette of Montenegro, but the law’s provisions stipulate that its implementation (the issuing of certificates of partnership, etc.) will begin one year after it enters into force. (Art. 76.)

Naraht (talk) 18:26, 3 June 2021 (UTC)

Croatian language edits


Hi Kwamikagami. It was easier for me to revert all three edits at once, sorry about that, but I feel I owe you a longer explanation: when it comes to the language of Croats (Hr-VA-ti), stress is indeed on the thrilled R (HRRR-vatski) and that was not a typo. The four dialects are more than accents, but you're right that they should be listed with commas, not slashes. Thanks, Ponor (talk) 20:34, 8 June 2021 (UTC)

@Ponor: Thanks for the fix.
What are the differences between e-i-ije-kavski apart from the jat reflex? — kwami (talk) 22:34, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
Well, it's complicated because they also mix with other divisions of the dialect spectrum. The ča/kaj/šta/što (super)division has well defined geographical regions, then each of those has a few distinct regional subdivisions that some like to classify according to the e/i/je pronunciation, or the ways words are stressed (accents). On top of that there are historical influences of other languages that may or may not follow ča/kaj/šta/što or e/i/je borders. So imagine painting a map first by how the word what is pronounced, then paint e/i/je regions differently, add layer for accents, words from foreign languages that dominated the regions in the past, and so on. You'll get a spectrum in which not all e-i-jekavian dialects (in Croatian we call them 'govor', speech; in English they may be better called pronunciations, 'izgovor') are the same and you'll have to be more specific to describe each one of them. The e/i/je words are frequent, that's why I think they were chosen to *represent* different dialects. It's funny that as a native speaker from a country of 4M people I can easily recognize at least 20 distinct dialects and put them on a map; 3-4 of those I can hardly understand (and that's not only because they are ča/kaj/što or e-i-je). Ponor (talk) 09:12, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I thought it was primarily the reflex of the yat. When Serbian started switching from Ijekavian to Ikavian, was it really a change in dialect (grammar, vocab, etc.), or just of that vowel, like the regional difference of the /ɔː/ vowel in American English, or /bæθ/ vs /bɑːθ/ for the BATH vowel? — kwami (talk) 09:30, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
If you group all humans by the color of their hair, then the groups differ by hair color (yet no members of a group are the same). So yes, the main difference between E/I/Je-kavian is the reflex of the yat; it's a prominent characteristic so it makes sense to group by it. I don't know why and how those developed in distant regions: sometimes it's migrations, sometimes it's political decisions, or even independent development. I don't think other changes followed this one, maybe only accents. For example, (quite pronounced) vocabulary differences are more due to foreign influences, i.e. history&geography, and you add them on top of pronunciation differences: Venetian/Italian influence was the strongest near the coast (where Chakavian was dominant, either as Ekavian or Ikavian), and we had German/Austrian (in dominantly Kajkavian-Ekavian regions), Turkish (in dominantly Shtokavian-Ikavian, Shtokavian-Jekavian, Shtokavian-Ekavian regions), Hungarian, Serbian (...) influences as well. Grammar changes are less granular, distant regions did lose some verb tenses (one form of FT instead of two), word cases (Nom+Acc only instead of all seven; or Voc→Nom), and some do appear in dominantly Kajkavian or Shtokavian regions, but again, I don't think they developed *because* of the kaj/što difference, they developed on top of them and sometimes cross their borders. It's a spectrum, and you probably need three words to describe every single dialect, like Chakavian+Ekavian+Istrian or Chakavian+Ikavian+Dalmatian etc. Different authors do it differently, see tables at hr:Dijalekt. Ponor (talk) 14:38, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
In linguistics, 'dialect' implies more than just a difference in pronunciation, so if that's all the terms are tracking, I don't think 'dialect' would be an appropriate word. There have been discussions in the past on this point for the SC articles. But 'accent' is perhaps not quite right either. What we're really tracking are isoglosses. Perhaps the section could be recast in those terms. — kwami (talk) 19:24, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Slight voicing


Hello, I had one question. If a voiced consonant, say /b/, is said to be ‘slightly voiced’, then should I represent it as [b̥᪽] or would a simple [b̥] (without the parentheses) be fine? [For more details, this is a phenomenon in Standard Bengali in which initial and final voiced stops are slightly voiced, while full voicing occurs in intervocalic positions.] Thank you so much for your attention! inqilābī inqilāb·zinda·bād 01:35, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

Hi Inqilābī,
I don't think it's very standardized. Since voiced [b] has a dedicated IPA letter for its voiceless variant, "p", voiceless "[b̥]" doesn't have any obvious meaning. Some people use [b̥] for slack voice, others for a fully devoiced phonetic [p] (written with a "b" if it's from an underlying /b/, written "p" if it's from /p/, but phonetically identical), others use [b̥] vs [p] for a lenis-fortis distinction. You'd need to explain to your reader what "voiceless voiced labial plosive" was supposed to mean. On the other hand, [b̥᪽] has a reasonably clear meaning, so that's what I'd probably use. It's still ambiguous as to whether by "slightly voiced" you mean weakly voiced throughout, fully voiced but only for part of its duration, or both, but since that probably varies from utterance to utterance even for the same speaker, then unless you're being extraordinarily precise in your transcription of a particular recording, you can probably just leave it as "[b̥᪽]" and provide any details in your description. But "[b̥]" is just fine (and more common, since it's less effort), as long as you're clear what you mean by it. But that's true for all things IPA: you should always clarify what you mean by even standard use of standard IPA symbols, because they're not always used in the standard way, and because if you want your writing to still be useful a couple generations from now, there's a good chance that the standard will have morphed by then. If you've ever read phonetic descriptions from even half a century ago, you've probably appreciated the author explaining their symbols, or been frustrated when they didn't, even when they were normal IPA. — kwami (talk) 05:22, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
I am pretty sure that a voiced stop word-initially & finally is realised as weakly voiced throughout. Since using the symbol without the parenthesis could be ambiguous as you said, I shall then use [b̥᪽]. I would actually be using this phonetic transcription on Wiktionary where there will otherwise be no scope to explain what the symbol actually means. By the way that phonetic information is from Chatterji (1921) (a paper on Bengali phonetics) where the author does not employ any symbol for such voiced stops, but just explains the sound. Thanks again! ·~ dictátor·mundꟾ 02:20, 11 June 2021 (UTC)
English voiced stops are similarly weakly voiced word-initially, so you might check out how that's conveyed as well. — kwami (talk) 05:29, 11 June 2021 (UTC)

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