Neutralize vocabulary

1. I suggest a project to "neutralize" the vocabulary of religious articles which contributes a lot to POV. Many words in that context, e.g. heresy, apostate, cult, etc. are used mainly by a specific POV. They can be used within NPOV when attributed "Irenaeus thought Gnosticism a heresy" but they should not be used unattributed. Other words are frequently used in a generalizing way which usually also contains a POV (e.g. calling all conservative Christians fundamentalists). --Irmgard 13:35, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

I noticed that Hindus have myths and sects, but other religions have stories denominations. Andries 20:59, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

I found out that the word sect has a different meaning in an Indian context. See sect. Andries 16:56, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Such a clean-up would consist of

1. • collecting not-NPOV words - best in subproject-article explaining why for each word
   • linking this article to other articles regarding NPOV so it is accessible to the community
   • cleaning up - article by article during article cleanup or word by word using word searches

Assessment

The department to assess articles with which this project deals, and, if required, draw attention to articles which are in need of attention.

New moon

DEMANDS of ACADEMIC-bias POV-pushers at WP:CHOPSY

NPOV

• List of purported cults
• Rajneesh
• Psychic detective - This article has been an ongoing target for attack by those who do not accept NPOV policy, as you can see at Talk:Psychic detective. If there is anyone here who has a good knowledge of this area, please help out the article needs a lot of work. - Solar 11:29, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
• Guru - unlike other articles on concepts in religion, this article contains a large section of "criticism" by Western scholars, some little-known. Talk page discussion has been polarized for many months. One editor claims he "has a problem to distinguish between good and bad gurus". Other editors (including myself) claim that this is original research. — goethean ॐ 17:03, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
• Cult apologist - Currently a cleanup is underway. Please feel free to add your input. --Justanother 14:37, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
• Cessationism could use some serious attention from any interested editors and/or experts. It is currently heavily biased with a huge Charismatic/Pentecostal focused bibliography and similar POV. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. Vassyana 06:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
• The Promised Land (sculpture) The article for a statue in Portland Oregon. The statue itself expresses a POV: Supersessionism, implicitly asserting that Oregon is the Promised Land and that the white American Christians depicted therefore have a divine right to possess it and dispossess its indigenous inhabitants. The article assumes this as a false neutral, and tenant editors have refused to allow acknowledgement of it into the article. I've begun to challenge this on talk Talk:The_Promised_Land_(sculpture)#Meaning_and_interpretation_of_the_statue but have been accused of harrassment in a related dispute over the inscription (which I deny), and must now back off to avoid a block.Jaredscribe (talk) 07:20, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Merge

• Brainwashing

Other, no tags

• Apostasy
• Cult
  • Cults and governments
  • Destructive cult
  • Opposition to cults and new religious movements
• Divine Light Mission
• Human - currently, Humanity and Homo Sapiens redirects to Human, where human beings and humanity are treated as primates. Some editors (including myself) believe that the article implies that human beings are nothing more than primates. Discussion page has been polarized for years. Along with others, the conflict has resulted in an Arbcom case against one religious editor, User:Sam Spade — goethean ॐ 17:09, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
  • The same dispute occured 2400 years ago, and was resolved when Plato and Aristotle defined human as a "rational animal". The definition as "bipedal" was considered by them and rejected by them as a nonessential differentia, along with "hairless", and "having opposable thumbs". This article makes the error of treating bipedal, hairless, opposable thumbs MORE ESSENTIAL than intelligence. Another ignorant and retarded prejudice of mainstream "scientism", enforced here as Academic bias according to the WP:CHOPSY test. Thanks Goethean for bringing this to our attention. You can cite Aristotle Mortimer Adler on this. I'm going to attack address points in that article in the coming months. WP:ENC Jaredscribe (talk) 07:05, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
    • So, what solution do you advocate for:
    • State that humans are body, soul and spirit, according to the New Testament ;
    • State that humans have seven bodies, according to Omraam Mikhaël Aïvanhov;
    • State that humans have nine bodies, according to Rudolf Steiner;
    • State that humans have an immortal soul, according to mainstream Christianity;
    • State that humans don't have an immortal soul, since between death and resurrection their soul ceases to exist, according to Seventh-day Adventist Church and Jehovah's Witnesses;
    • State that the soul of humans is simply the result of having a biological body of a human and being able to breathe oxygen, and if one is no longer able to breathe the soul ceases to exist, according to Seventh-day Adventist Church;
    • State that humans don't have souls, selves or atmans at all, according to Buddhism;
    • State that humans may become God after death, according to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints;
    • State that humans will resurrect in flesh on Earth;
    • State that humans will resurrect as spiritual beings in heavens;
    • State that humans will become angels after death;
    • State that humans will reincarnate till they vanish forever;
    • State that humans will reincarnate till they become part of the chosen people, and only then they may get to heavens? Tgeorgescu (talk) 00:02, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
      • I advocate for exactly what I stated: Man is a RATIONAL ANIMAL, according to Plato, Aristotle, and at least one notable philosopher from U. of Chicago who happened to be general editor of the Encyclopedia Britannica. WP:VERECUNDIAM. I made no predications about the afterlife of the rational soul, and that is not what this dispute is about. This editor should stop projecting his religious caricatures. Straw men abound in the "arguments" given by defenders of the status quo, and ridicule is not an argument. Jaredscribe (talk) 01:18, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
        • Except rational animal is not what they said. They said speaking animal. Rational animal is the specific Roman interpretation of those Greek statements. Tgeorgescu (talk) 19:19, 15 April 2021 (UTC)
        • To spell out the problem: science reached a consensus about what humans are, while all non-science academic fields either didn't reach any consensus thereupon, or rubber-stamp the consensus from science. tgeorgescu (talk) 10:14, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
        • I took two courses on ethics, and therein rational animal wasn't mentioned even once. Nor was mentioned any holy book, not even for criticizing it. Such definition is pedantic, and rarely used. tgeorgescu (talk) 11:29, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
• Intelligent Design
• List of new religious movements
• Prem Rawat
  • Criticism of Prem Rawat
• Sant Mat
• Sathya Sai Baba
  • Beliefs and practices in the Sathya Sai Organisation

Articles on Freedom of religion

• Freedom of religion

2006-12-04

Indian Buddhist Revival and Kherlanji Massacre

As much as I'd love to do battle with Hkelkar and his fellow editors, I have a job and have to work.

This is the way the article Indian Buddhist Revival (now redirected, with no request for input, to a page called Dalit Buddhist Movement)looks today:[]. The page history (briefly interrupted by an editor who futily tries to protest named Pkulkani)is here:[].

The Kherlanji Massacre (which, believe me, is truly horrific by any human standard) looks like this []. This is it's page history:[].

Hkelkar is working in concert with an Editor named Ambroodey, who was apparently called out of retirement by an editor named Dangerous Boy (or D-Boy). It appears I have a new "friend".

NinaEliza 02:54, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

I can't BEGIN to enumerate the various flaws in both these articles, but here's just one example. The repeated rapes of these women is not "alleged", it's a fact. The murders (followed by the public parade of their bodies) are not an "alleged" crime.

By all accounts India is a Country brimming full with excellent examples of culture, architecture, botany, art, religious icons, as well as a phenomenally rich history. Furthermore, I assert that it's a Country fair to bursting with incredibly smart and compassionate people. But unless something happened that I'm not aware of recently, The great Nation of India still considers rapes and murders to be crimes.

You've simply let this go on to long. I appreciate that everyone is busy doing other things, or perhaps you sincerely did not know. But you must, must, start dealing with this. I'm copying the Hinduism project and the Indian Caste System project as well. I'm also copying my own projects. I know there's wonderful editors here, and wonderful people. I'm showing my hand, and asking for help.

NinaEliza 04:22, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I know that these articles weren't part of WikiProject India, and I know that Hkelkar was never a member. I apologize for sounding so shrill, and for bringing up a painful subject. But now that you're aware of what's going on, I would dearly appreciate it if you take these articles into your care. Thank you.

NinaEliza 04:33, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Okay, there's a lot of background, but basically the Indian Buddhist Movement(which isn't the best title) concerns Indians of Hindu descent classified as "dalits" converting to an extremely new form of Buddhism in an attempt to escape their caste, among other things. The Kherlanji massacre doesn't exactly fall into the purview of this project - the family that was murdered were dalit. I'm not an Indian, and am in fact an American Nichiren Buddhist. I would appreciate any and all assitance. If anything, just put them on your watchlist.

Please don't doubt my desire to join your project. I joined a few nights ago, and never thought I would be asking for help so soon. If there is anything I can be of assitance with in your own Wiki-World, please let me know.

Sincerely, NinaEliza 05:30, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

There are so many wikipedia WP:NPOV violations in the post above that it truly boggles the mind. Look at the following NEWS SOURCE (remember that little annoyance, sources? Remember those little things called news sites? FYI, they're very reliable) that states the rapes as "alleged" (exact words):

Two of them - Surekha and Priyanka were allegedly raped before they were killed.

See that? Allegedly. Ever hear of edits reflecting sources?Might want to read up on some wikipedia policies. Whether the Kherlanji crimes were atrocious, brutal or a Sunday afternoon barbecue is beside the point. We must adhere to NPOV. If articles on the holocaust (at least 6 million dead, and that's just us Jews) can be written in a neutral narrative why the hell not this? We are editors, not politicians. We should not use loaded words and distort the known facts unless we are certain that the sources reflect them. Memorize that please. Hkelkar 06:50, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

• NDTV.COM (New Delhi Television Ltd)[]

• AsiaNewsItaly (For a more worldwide perspective) [] (actually not so much a news source as Christian Missionary Site - it's quite hidden)

• CNN-IBN News (it's the India division of CNN)[]

• Diligent Media Corporation []

Or, of course, you could do what you were going to do anyway and GOOGLE these events. You'll find neutral sources a plenty. NinaEliza 06:57, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Lady you need to check your refs a bit more carefully. My NDTV article is more recent than yours, listing the rapes as alleged. Your NDTV article dates Nov 4th. Mine dates December 4th. Now, I don't know how dates work in Shangri-La or wherever, but here on planet Earth December comes AFTER November. Since the most recent NDTV article says "alleged rape", the most recent source of information is that the rapes are NOT established facts as far as NDTV is concerned. Understand?

Now, as far as that Bible-thumping rag "Asia News Italy" is concerned. Well, their partisanship is obvious.

And guess what. The CNN article, is an op/ed by Asim Khan, also dated prior to December 4th, and it doesn;t even mention the alleged Kherlanji rapes, only the murders briefly in ONE sentence (the murders, of course are not alleged but fact, there are dead bodies to prove that). Please learn to do some research before making transparent attempts to reduce wikipedia to the level of a political soap opera. Hkelkar 07:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

Hkelkar, I humbly apolgize for the terribly things I wrote above. It was offensive, irresponsible, and awful thing to bring up.

To all who read this request, please disregard it. I posted this request without discussing it with the editors in question, which is the worst form of bad faith. My hurtful and incredibly stupid remarks were aimed at the very faiths I said I would help, which is simply unforgivable.

It's also the worst way to introduce myself. Again, I am very sorry. I have posted unique apologies to both the WP:INB and WP:HINDU pages should you want to know in detail why what I did was so very wrong. I only hope to be able to regain the good faith that I have lost in time.

Sincerely, NinaEliza 07:48, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

2007-02-13

Baha'i Faith

I would appreciate some views on an old dispute I had regarding the article Institution of the Counsellors - detailed on the talk page - as to whether the names of members were suitabel for inclusion under the WP:N and WP:RS policies. Thanks AndrewRT(Talk) 19:13, 13 February 2007 (UTC)